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Jet / Needle Settings Baselines...


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20 replies to this topic

#1 sharkster

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Posted 08 March 2011 - 09:22 PM

Ok, I'm about to start rebuilding/cleaning the carbies...
I was wondering what settings to use and thought 'Why not see what is a good average baseline ?'.
I know its all dependant on lots of factors but maybe folks could put up which settings worked for them to help me and others out ?
I'm running 2001 '1300 motor,twin pods,dyna coils, 4-2 motad with free flowing cans (with proper back pressure baffles..not cheap junk harley ones). The head has been mildly 'cleaned up' but stock valves etc.
What mains, pilot and needle positions are you guys running ?
I have a brand new jet kit (84-85 FJ1100) and a set of emulsion tubes both from Factory Pro. Seeing as its running the same BS36's and their jets are normal sizes (opposed to weird Dynojet sizes) I figured I could use it.
I am after max grunt as opposed to peak BHP. :activities195:

#2 xxdrac

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Posted 10 March 2011 - 10:10 PM

M8 from lack of replys as you can guess answering that question is like asking how longs a peice of string , it all really dependant on what ya engin needs and likes , ive run both ways just using main jets and moving needle up one and drilling hole in slides and also a dynojet kit and results are about same , as for jet sizes it depends on make as they all vary from make to make and also a lot depends on ya ambiant temp and density of air and quality of petrol which is way different from UK , if bike was running ok would stay with that and get mains tweeked on dyno , but found it always likes to be on rich side

Edited by xxdrac, 10 March 2011 - 10:11 PM.

XXR!

I only brake for fairies, elves, gnomes, the toothfairy, the easter bunny, santa and other little creatures that only I can see.


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#3 sharkster

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Posted 11 March 2011 - 08:08 AM

Yeah I get that mate, but what I was hoping for was for a few that are running K&N's to put something like
"4 x K&N pods, straight through mufflers with sound reduction baffle, x main, x pilot, needle on x clip"
At least that would give an indication as to what direction....

#4 xxdrac

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Posted 11 March 2011 - 08:32 AM

Not sure what use sizes will be , i have amal jets hear, keysters and mikunis and even tho they all stamped same they all different and they all flow different , i know this cause ive flow tested them as i use them for fuel metering jets on me nitrous as for dyno jet lol who Knows

On a dyno jet kit i used middle jets , blocked of air corrector and pilot 2.5 turns out i think needle was stock but then carbs still have the heavy stock needles that are tapered and not the light weight ally dyno jet ones , when i did just mains if i rember was 135s in end with pilot 2 turns out and needle up 1 , but i have read post where people have fitted 125 mains and others where a dyno shop actually droped the mains down from stock :-( , ive seen AF graphs from dyno shops anything from 10-1 upto 14.5-1

with the 135 mains and dyno jet kit that was pod filters run dry , full race system but 4-2 and got 120bhp and 88lbs and pulled like a train, on both set ups i drilled out slide hole to i think 3 or 3.3mm cant rember as it was a drill bit that came with dynojet kit , that was on stock timing , with lots of tweeking and messing got this upto 124/5bhp and 88lbs but so many parts change not sure where gains come from , i also run non stock gearing 17-41 so that messes with dyno as well , but from testing Dyna coils are a must spark strenght on stock is shit , with dynas its off scale and ive always run stock NGK plus even on 100 shot of nitrous altho they a grade colder and earth straps trimed back

I found sitting on bike RH zorst was always a tad leaner so that worth a check if you use a dyno and for some reason No1 carb was always a tad richer and middle 2 EGT were also a fair bit higher so i aired on caution and run rich acros the whole bank

I aways run and test on 99/100 octain pump gas and am tuned for that

hope some of that helps as i said ive seen post many different sizes for mains

Edited by xxdrac, 12 March 2011 - 03:01 AM.

XXR!

I only brake for fairies, elves, gnomes, the toothfairy, the easter bunny, santa and other little creatures that only I can see.


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#5 wattfield

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Posted 12 March 2011 - 01:05 AM

I'm confused! :unsure: :unsure: :scotland:



fliegetn0.giffliegetn0.giffliegetn0.giffliegetn0.giffliegetn0.giffliegetn0.giffliegetn0.giffliegetn0.gif


#6 sharkster

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Posted 12 March 2011 - 08:49 AM

Cheers XXdrac....Thats all useful info...I guess I just want a good idea for a start point for a dyno run and then go from there...and would rather have it a bit rich than weak....

I'm confused! :unsure: :unsure: :scotland:

S'alright mate....my missus comes from your neck of the woods...she's soo confused she rides a gixxer :wacko:

Edited by sharkster, 12 March 2011 - 08:52 AM.


#7 Vern

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Posted 12 March 2011 - 01:22 PM

Does your bike have the air induction system?

I wouldn't necessarily agree that running a bit rich is a good idea mate. I tried a few different settings when I set mine up and the best torque and power was achieved when the mix was stoichiametric (ideal mixture of fuel to air). Drac is running nos so a bit rich probably isn't a bad thing.

I had a zorst on mine that was specifically designed to increase torque. The only other mods were 36y inlet rubbers combined with properly jetted stock carbs and I scrapped the air induction system - do not under estimate the adverse affect that the air induction system has on your engine. Standard Filter, I did make a slight mod to the airbox. This is pointless unless you run 36y's though. That was it.

People who have ridden the bike or ridden against it have accused me of doing other stuff as well to it that I havent let on about. This is basically because they had done the same or more mods and were claiming more bhp but their bikes werent as quick - horsepower's for show - you need torque to get moving quickly, even more so with a heavy bike. Most of them were running rich as well.

No ignition advance on mine either - but if you do go for one try a 2 degree as opposed to a 4 - actually thats bollocks if you want more low down (my personal preference) then go for a 2 if you want smoother mid range power go for a 4.

Peak torque on mine was well over 90 ftlb at the back wheel and this was all available from 4000 rpm through to 8500 rpm - perfectly flat torque curve - not a curve at all in fact. Peak power was 126bhp - nowt special and easily achievable.

I'm sorry mate but I cant remember for the life of me what size jets I ended up with, but I upsized the main and the pilot jets. Needle settings will vary from bike to bike. Some very thin washers (mosquitos wedding tackle) were used to get the perfect adjustment on the needles as well.

I have no doubt that I could have got a lot more out of it, but I did big miles at the time and I wanted reliability. How much more I could have pushed it and kept it reliable - no idea.

Thats not any help at all really is it - sorry I tried.

PS gixxer thou's rule :bike: lol
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#8 xxdrac

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Posted 12 March 2011 - 05:29 PM

for life of me i cant find dyno charts , from what i remeber was about 12.5 a/f but i was a tad lean on pilots but not enought to be a probem as i had left them alone , but verns right as i run nitrous being a bit rich is less important to me but being lean at any point would be a total melt down as most of my useage is WOT , so i air on side of caution and pick a good set of mid range setting for my bike and needs and considered power and reliablity , If i had to start and just tune a base XJR i would def keep airbox and get a proper 4-1 , im sure the single pod filters are messing with my air flow and i know my collector box is probley another area i should look at

I think Vern still has airbox and later carbs and a 4-1 this would be way i would go if i had a totaly NA bike , im convinced single pod filters unless you need room on bike is not a good move
XXR!

I only brake for fairies, elves, gnomes, the toothfairy, the easter bunny, santa and other little creatures that only I can see.


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#9 sharkster

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Posted 12 March 2011 - 09:17 PM

:coffee/paper: :respect: :activities30:

Vern,
Mine is 2001 motor,no air induction.The cops here would do me for 'illegal mod' if I removed it so I went for the earlier model.
I'm after the same as you ...Grunt not peak bhp..that's what I luv about these motors..
When I said rich I meant for the first dyno run...just to be safe I would up the main jet a size or 2 and work from there rather than leave the carbies stock.

Drac..hear what ya saying about pods v airbox...I have gone for a pair of dual intake pods from the Legend race cars..bit more volume in them...Also I have made a c/f shroud that goes around the about 2/3 of the filters (leaving 1/2" clearance) to smooth the airflow around them. A guy on the 'fighters site put an A/F meter on his bike (4 pods) and took a ride...just by moving his legs the ratio changed, same in a cross wind...
At one point doing 100k's with feet up on pillion pegs it dropped to a dangerously weak ratio...

Below is a pic of the baffles I am using...Khrome Werks hiddly diddly ones...but I have read good reports on these as they have been designed with a bit of thought.They are 50mm OD and the internal hole is about 25mm
4-2 Motad down pipes and collector with reverse cone mufflers (yeah 4-1 is better but I like the balanced look)

I'll put the Factory Pro kit up for sale on ebay. I will check out the emulsion tubes though...if they are the same I will use them with a new dyno jet kit. I read somewhere the tubes can wear oval on older bikes so you will never get it spot on if thats the case..

Now for some carby cleaner.....poor things are black inside and full of old petrol goo :angry2:

Oh and even she had to admit...she luv's her gixxer (for performance) but mine looks way better :D

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#10 Vern

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Posted 12 March 2011 - 10:35 PM

Yeah - 4-1 is better for performance, the twin pipes do look good - why not have both?

Run a 4-1 or 4-2-1 and then weld on a dummy link pipe and can. Basically the second pipe and can is there but blanked off.
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#11 xxdrac

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Posted 13 March 2011 - 07:05 AM

:coffee/paper: :respect: :activities30:

Drac..hear what ya saying about pods v airbox...I have gone for a pair of dual intake pods from the Legend race cars..bit more volume in them...Also I have made a c/f shroud that goes around the about 2/3 of the filters (leaving 1/2" clearance) to smooth the airflow around them. A guy on the 'fighters site put an A/F meter on his bike (4 pods) and took a ride...just by moving his legs the ratio changed, same in a cross wind...
At one point doing 100k's with feet up on pillion pegs it dropped to a dangerously weak ratio...
:D


do you have pics of the pod filter you use , all ive seen is foam ones and dont want them on bike incase of a Nitrous back fire , looked at the big K&N they use on legends for all 4 carbs in one just looked so ugley tho

It runs ok with the pod filters and im happy with setting and feel of bike maybe the problem with airflow could account for why bike feels better when a tad rich on road test, either way i was not going to risk leaning it out and from what you have said above sounds like i did right thing , I like the widebands 02 on a bike

Edited by xxdrac, 13 March 2011 - 07:16 AM.

XXR!

I only brake for fairies, elves, gnomes, the toothfairy, the easter bunny, santa and other little creatures that only I can see.


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#12 sharkster

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Posted 13 March 2011 - 07:11 AM

Interesting idea Vern....How well do you think it would work with mine though...The motad system is basically 2x 2-1's with a balance pipe ??

#13 Vern

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Posted 13 March 2011 - 08:17 AM

I'm not sure - maybe not. It depends on the diameter of the link pipe. You would have to fab a new collector box as well. When we did it the bike had a 4-1 akra system. A matching can was bought and then a link pipe made which was welded to the original link pipe. The second link pipe and can was there purely for show - fuked the MOT man up good and proper first time it went in apparently lol
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#14 sharkster

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Posted 13 March 2011 - 11:48 AM

Drac, This was it when I first rebuilt it with the FJ11 motor...

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#15 sharkster

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Posted 24 March 2011 - 09:18 AM

Sooo...no-one else out there in forum land has pod filters and a dynojet kit in a 1300 ??? :unsure:




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